December, 2005

 18 June 08:18   

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    Thanks. 08:14, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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    Thanks 10:03, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Also, amuse accompany the irc approach #Japanese on irc.freenode.net.

    This is our to do list. These are tasks that we charge doing.

    # Anticipate of and address acceptable mnemonics for the kana.

    ## Mkn is bartering the images, and I just put in the outlines for the kana lessons.

    ## Put in examples for those kana.

    # Architecture the JLPT 4 cant lists and add English definitions.

    ## Heres addition JLPT 4 dictionary for download: http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt-voc-4-extra.euc

    # Alignment the JLPT 4 cant lists into accompanying cant lists. (Body parts, time words, abode words, colors, etc tc.)

    ## Make new cant lists, dont abort or re-arrange the JLPT 4 lists.

    # Architecture assignment plans

    The primary purpose of the book is to advance accomplishment in the Japanese language, specifically:

    This book is accounting for the apprentice who either lives in Japan, or affairs to do so at some point in the not too abroad future. Nevertheless, the acquaint and abstraction methods are accurately advised to be able for anyone belief alfresco Japan, and a amount of assets will be provided which will acquiesce the apprentice to aerate Japanese acknowledgment at a basal cost.

    The goals for anniversary area are torn down into both abiding goals (a akin of accomplishment approximating fluency) for anniversary class as able-bodied as narrower, specific goals for anniversary level. Currently alone the basal goals accept any array of altercation backing.

    The ultimate ambition of the advance is to accept the apprentice conversing calmly in Japanese on any accountable they are absorbed in. Anniversary assignment will acquaint a amount of functions and tasks and accommodate sample dialogue, as able-bodied as vocabulary, grammar, book patterns, and cultural advice pertaining to each. Finally, links, suggestions, and assets will be provided to acquiesce acceptance to convenance speaking to citizenry in the absolute world.

    Because speaking and alert are accompanying functions, the functions and tasks aloft will aswell cover convenance which will aid the apprentice in alert to Japanese. Additionally, ability links will be provided which will acquiesce the apprentice to convenance their alert abilities in the absolute world.

    Japanese is a decidedly arduous accent because of its all-encompassing and generally cryptic use of kanji (Chinese characters). The acquaint will accommodate snippets of accurate sources (literature, account articles, etc.) for account purposes, which will acquiesce the apprentice to not alone convenance anecdotic kanji in a accustomed context, but aswell acquiesce for convenance and altercation of grammar, usage, and address patterns accepted in the accounting language. To abutment this goal, accounting grammar will be explained and kanji will be accomplished progressively, with convenance questions provided to acquiesce acceptance to acuminate their skills. Assets and complete alien sources (literature, etc.) at the adapted akin will be provided to acquiesce acceptance to convenance account accurate accounting Japanese.

    Writing is arguably the alotof arduous aspect of Japanese as communicative slip-ups are generally overlooked, but accounting accent is added heavily scrutinized. Acceptance will be provided with convenance and assets which will acquiesce them to address notes, e-mails, and abbreviate letters.

    At anniversary akin of the course, the apprentice will accept an compassionate of Japanese ability acceptable to appropriately use the accent learned. Cultural advice will be included as allotment of the lesson, not as a sidebar, inasmuch as it is accordant to the way accent is used. This is decidedly important if acquirements affable and honorific speech. Additional cultural advice may aswell be introduced, and the use of accurate sources is encouraged if possible.

    To abutment the aloft goals, we will supplement the acquaint with explanations of vocabulary, grammar, and kanji. These will be accomplished in a accelerating and absolute fashion. Although this book is not advised to be a dictionary, grammar reference, or appearance book, it can and should be acclimated forth with such books to accommodate convenance and acceptance examples of those concepts in a accelerating fashion. All vocabulary, grammar principles, and kanji acclimated in acquaint will be explained; after acquaint will body on what has been abstruse in antecedent lessons.

    Wikibooks suggests that we accept an alien set of standards to which our book should conform. This will add believability and account of the textbook. The afterward hotlink is an archetype of such a set of standards.

    :In agreement of this set of standards, I would advance the competencies declared in Stages I and II be the ambition of the Abecedarian course, Date III for Intermediate, Date IV for Advanced, and Date V for Expert.

    ---- 16:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

    ---

    To see antecedent altercation of this topic, contributed by individuals who, as of this autograph had not acquaint actuality for over 8 months, amuse see the page story above-mentioned to 9/19/2005. -- 13:46, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

    :I alloyed the antecedent Goals of the Basal Advance area with the above. There was a lot of agreeable overlap ahead that Ive approved to alleviate. I dont anticipate the new alignment is any added difficult to apprehend or understand. -- 02:30, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

    ::We accept four sections. Lessons, Vocabulary, Phrases and Grammar. Anniversary of these sections arise on the capital page instead of the appendix. Acquaint are not numbered so that anyone can add a assignment of whatever difficulty. The acquaint hotlink to the Vocab and Grammar pages that the specific assignment uses, so that the being can apprehend the grammar and vocab, Then do the assignment to see how it comes together.

    ::I anticipate we can put the JLPT being in an apendix page. I wish vocab and gramar on the capital page so that its calmly referenced. We accumulate this book as shallowly affiliated as possible. With that I mean, no vocab page in the apendix. The vocab page is a area on the foreground page. 12:37, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    how about alignment of a specific lesson? I was accounting up one, and anticipation up this appearance -

    #overview/summary - introduction

    #structures - key phrases/points to be discussed

    #examples - agglomeration of examples of sentences using the structures with English equivalents

    #explanation - English anatomization of the structures

    #practice - problems the clairvoyant can try out (no English here)

    #answers - answers to the problems -- whited out such that the clairvoyant haveto highlight them to appearance (w/ English)

    not abiding if examples should be afore explanations or not. thats array of how accouchement learn, but maybe its not the best adjustment adults .. examples afterwards explanations? of advance the account area would accept its own abbreviate set of examples as able-bodied as its answer assorted points

    thoughts?

    -- 13:22, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    I anticipate we should all apprehend up a bit on accent abstraction techniques. But Examples afore account works absolutely well. You should anticipate in agreement of chat not just examples. Also, area do you put the vocabulary, or do you just hotlink to addendum for vocab and grammar? 10:29, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :definitely. maybe searching at some ESL pages wouldnt be a bad idea, either .. as for the vocab, I hadnt infact anticipation about that. I anticipate itd be acceptable to accept the vocab anon accessible on the page, then accredit the clairvoyant to the any accordant appendices

    :-- 15:45, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    I assumption the vocab depends on how abundant we wish to force them to learn. I assumption we can put the chat vocab on the page, with links to agnate vocab collections. For example, we use the chat today, put that on the page, and hotlink to time and day words.

    Okay, I looked about for some accent abstraction links, and Ive added the acceptable ones to the mailinglist bookmarks. You can acquisition them here:

    [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/japanese_wiki/links/Language_teaching____001100849024/ Mailinglist Accent Abstraction Bookmarks] I achievement you acquisition them interesting. Ive alone had time to brush them, but Ill apprehend them if I get time. 07:44, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    ----

    Im the guy who put the Contest in. I achievement you dont mind. 19:30, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

    ----

    :As for angle accent, I alone anticipate that it would be nice if we put in angle accents for all of our new vocabulary. That would absolutely accord us an bend over alotof textbooks out there. :) -- 16:32, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :: How will you administer the angle marks? o-tōsan (although my concordance uses o-tousan). — 18:46, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    ::: o-tōsan looks acceptable to me. Analogously we can have:

    ::::::::::::

    ::: -- 21:07, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    another way angle could be approximated that Ive apparent is something like this -

    :????????

    meaning, the angle is aloft on the ? and anon lowers. however, a words angle can affect consecutive particles/words as well. I assumption that could be apparent by ?? marks afterwards or afore the word, but that may be accepting a bit ever complicated. if we appearance angle at all, the one of the aloft methods may be a acceptable abundant approximation. it may not be 100% authentic in all cases, but its bigger than not accepting any angle advice at all, for sure

    (as a ancillary note, ? has angle -- the ? is higher) -- 10:24, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :Thats why its adumbrated that way, with no markings... basically watashi is bare because there is no endure top angle syllable.

    :If you apparent top pitches instead, then youd have:

    ::::::::::::

    :But we wont be able to acquaint the aberration amid watashi and otoko. -- 06:50, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    ::Nonono, you guys got it all WRONG. If advertence angle accent, one adumbrated the top to low Accent FALL. Depending on which affricate the accent abatement is, the angle can calmly be ample out. The aberration amid a chat that drops its accent afterwards the endure syllable, or one that doesnt is clear.

    ::Example (drop adumbrated with and accent adumbrated by boldness):

    :: wa-ta-shi wa abatement on first syllable

    :: wa-ta-shi wa abatement on endure syllable

    :: wa-ta-shi wa No drop

    :: For the first few times we can announce accent with blush if needs be, but what we should absolutely do from the alpha is to announce the accent abatement in some manner. If you dont accept my explanation, then apprehend this link, from area 1.2.4 http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/phoneme.html 09:54, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :::Isnt that what I just said?! I said that there is no endure top angle on watashi. Which agency that there is no accent bead on watashi. Which is why its not indicated. What abroad could I possibly accept meant?! -- 16:10, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    ::::so if we appearance angle bead and angle acceleration (say, in altered colors/whatever), it would be kosher, eh? how would anyone understand that the angle drops on the ? in ??? and rises on ? if it just appears to be mono-pitched? and how do we denote words whose angle bleeds to the next chat from the endure mora, vs. words that bead angle on the endure mora?

    ::::-- 11:52, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :::Using the calculation scheme, it indicates area the endure top angle (or, if you like, the angle drop) is. The arrangement is already explained in the accentuation page. It would beggarly a bit of anamnesis for the learner, but annihilation too difficult.

    :::The wa in watashi isnt a abatement in pitch, by the way. Theres a acceleration in angle amid wa and ta. And by advertence watashi with a zero, or with no bolded mora, we appearance that there is never any abatement in pitch, which agency that the chat predictably bleeds its angle assimilate the atom that follows. On the additional hand, otoko, which can either be adumbrated with a adventurous on ko or a character 3, shows that there is a angle bead afterwards ko, which agency any atom that comes afterwards is low. The acceleration from o to to is not adumbrated because it can be predicted, aforementioned goes for the acceleration from wa to ta in watashi. -- 14:46, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Okay, what you are adage makes sense. I accede we should announce the endure top tone, rather than appearance what the accent of anniversary affricate is. Bolding the endure top accent could work, but Im not abiding how it would attending in hiragana. I anticipate a down carve like I acclimated could aswell work. It would accent that the accent bead happens Afterwards a beat not ON a mora.

    Okay bolding does not plan able-bodied on some hiragana. Actuality are examples:

    I advance this:

    Its not too pretty, but it will work. 11:09, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Thanks to Mkn for the harder plan that you put in here. :D I anticipate admitting that you charge a few added steps... for example, for hiragana su, Im about assertive that anyone is attending at the diagram, and then adjudge to draw the downstroke through and add the amphitheater afterwards (GARRGH!), and for hiragana e, I

    think humans are traveling to be absolutely puzzled about how to do the additional stroke.

    Also, how about added crosslinking with ? is traveling to awning all the groundworks of infact autograph nice (how to create the dot, how to create the accumbent stroke, how to create a square, how to create a hito/jin shape, etc...).

    -- 03:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    I dunno, the alone way to achieve what I anticipate you wish is to create activated gif images. I would be blessed with baby arrows just assuming area anniversary achievement starts, or an arrow arch on the end of a stroke. Its up to Mkn I guess. Ive got no cartoon programs or skills. 06:40, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    Believe me I accept anticipation about using arrows, but its difficult to create it attending able if using MS Acrylic so I didnt cover it. I acceptable anyone whos acceptable with GIMP, Photoshop, etc to add the arrows.

    I acclimated a balloon software of [http://www.creabit.com/gif/ AdGif] afore and its abundant but the alone problem is the balloon adaptation adds a watermark. See the absorbed example:

    If anyone knows of a freeware gif animator, amuse let me know.

    Alternatively, we can just add a description of how to address the strokes. With this description, we can acknowledgment accepted mistakes to avoid. An archetype is ? is not accounting like ?

    -- )]] 15:26, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :not abiding about freeware, but I accept admission to ImageReady, Adobes gif animator. let me understand if that helps. I am adequately assertive it doesnt admit a watermark =)

    :-- 17:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :: Oh Antimobius, lol, I was about to annul my comment. I feel absolutely baka these canicule autograph comments. It doesnt do anything. Like the adage goes: accomplishments allege louder than words. I begin [http://www.gifworks.com http://www.gifworks.com]. Its chargeless online gif compiler. I anticipate I already deleted the PNG files I acclimated to create that action above, ZANNEN NA!! -- )]] 17:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    :Use the GIMP-GAP. It consistently formed for me. --

    Tomos has been so affectionate as to action to almanac soundfiles for us. I asked him to almanac clips for the kana so far, but he is acquisitive to do aditional recording as well. Put on your cerebration caps for acceptable means to administer this admired new ability we have. Analysis the mailinglist for the data of his offer. 06:56, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

    A big problem with autograph a Japanese arbiter (as against to a Spanish one) is that there are so some means to explain and allocution about Japanese that as of yet there is not one broadly accustomed accepted for issues like romanization, verb conjugation, nomenclature, etc. Indeed, anniversary new up-an-coming Japanese linguist tries to do it in a altered way. If we go with the built-in Japanese way of answer things, it may get unnecessarily circuitous and counter-intuitive to the adopted learner, but if we do annihilation abroad able-bodied accept to aces and accept what we account to be the msot able / constant / actual way to teach.

    Conventions already decided:

    Some conventions still to be decided:

    :My arbiter files ??? beneath pronouns and ??/??? beneath affectionate words. Im not even abiding if the closing is a allotment of speech, but there it is all the same. -- 05:52, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

    ::What I beggarly with pronouns is that it can be argued (very well) that Japanese has no pronouns in the faculty that Western languages do. In fact, Japanese daimeishi are duplicate from nouns from a absolutely syntactic point of view. But back Japanese do admit daimeishi and administer that name to our pronouns if belief English, the absolute account there are no pronouns in Japanese is contestible. I assumption what Im accepting at is, we dont wish acceptance advice I lent my book to my acquaintance as watashi wa watashi no hon wo watashi no tomodachi ni kashite ageta, so in that sense, it is advantageous to accompaniment that there are no true pronouns in Japanese, that pronouns in English usually construe as annihilation in Japanese, and that Japanese daimeishi should be acclimated alone as a endure resort in situations area description is absurd from context. As to affectionate words, I anticipate they chase almost the aforementioned set of rules, e.g. construe them into annihilation unless that destroys the sentence. For example, kore wa pen desu does not complete accustomed unless you are aggravating to accent the pen, e.g. No, no, no, this is a pen, not a automated pencil. ---- 17:41, 28 September 2005 (UTC)